Arena Balance: Hunters

As we mentioned last week the hunter class is one of the most under represented in arena teams at the moment. There are many theories as to why this is ranging from dead zone, to lack of DPS while moving, to the LOS issues in all arena maps. As our 2v2 Arena rating is climbing and we are facing better and better teams we are starting to see the reasons even more.

Personally BRR thinks it is a combination of all of these and a few more. Mrs. BRR and I have been playing in the arenas for a few months and in BGs for a few years, so we do have a fair amount of experience with the issues and the state of class balance. Trying to balance all classes to be fair and viable in PVE, Arena and PVP (BG and world) is a nightmare that blizzard has been attempting to over come one patch at a time.

Then main issues for hunters are as I mentioned above anyone in our dead zone cannot be effectively DPSed, this feeds into the 2nd issue of Hunters having very little DPS while being forced to move. The third issue Line Of Sight is not purely a hunter issue, most direct damage casters and healers have to worry about this as well. DOT classes and healers however can use it to their advantage easily. DOT classes can step out of cover throw up enough dots take 50-80% of their targets health then duck out of LOS for 20 seconds while you hemorrhage HPs. Healers on the other hand can use the cover for uninterrupted healing and time for HOTs/dots to tick.

The deadzone and movement issues are really the killer for a hunter. To DPS effectivly we need to be stationary and firing at a target more that 8 yards away from us, in arenas this doesn't get to happen very often. Once a player is in our dead zone we must try to use a trick to get out of range and go back to DPS, this means for all hunters Traps and Wing clip. Spec /build depending some hunters my be able to use, deterence > counter attack, scatter shot, intimidation or BW.

BRR's favorite was Wing clip + BW but currently we are MM for the greater burst damage so Wing clip + scatter shot is the flavour of the day.

I believe the main issue it that in PVE balance vs PVP balance. PVE our DPS is at the right point as we normally have a tank holding the target at range and FD to drop out aggro allowing us to DPS all out and over time reach levels that approach caster DPS. Due to not being limited by the tanks aggro as much as they are casters are we can compete, how many times have you seen your locks or mages /dancing on a boss while waiting for tank aggro to get ahead again.

In large scale PVP our survivability and DPS works as there is a wealth of targets to choose from and we are not limited in LOS as much. In small scale PVP especially 2v2 or 3v3 our DPS is limited as we are build for low maintenance raid DPS on a static target, not high burst DPS in a fluid and moving environment as required in Arenas. When you face more often than not a smart group of players, usually with a dedicated dispeller/healer to keep your opponents out of CCs the dynamic changes.

Next post: Arena Tactics Paladins

/AFK

We have been MIA for a few weeks now, quite surprised at the continued traffic levels despite our lack of updates and content.

We humbly offer apologies and our feeble excuses. Mrs BRR and I have just finished purchasing our first house. She is already ordering new doors and planning epic upgrades. Our Alliance guild while misguided in choosing the light over the strength of the dark side has been hitting Kara with a vengeance and progressing quickly. Unfortunately this has required BRR and the Queen of Frost shocks to be left a little unattended while our Warrior and Priest combo smash the Curator and Aran with the our very nice but undeniably Alliance Guild. Running 2 sets of PVP toons (on both sides of the BG) and raiding with one of them as well really eats up the hours. Not to mention the gold costs in respecting 2-4 times a week.

BRR has also been experimenting with MM builds for Arena battles. We love our BM build and dominate BGs but in 2v2 our near constant requirements for motion limits the ability to put our DPS on the target. Hence we are testing a 7/43/11 build for some bigger crit numbers and burst but with less need to plant for SS to shine. Shock horror, a BM hunter and evangelist is speccing AWAY from BM and to MM no less. Trust us on this, BRR is never going to be a MM glass cannon but we are not blind to the limitations of BM either.

An interesting note in hunter Arena news that BRR found interesting was the statistically proven dirth of hunters in teams especially the smaller ones. SRC: Wowinsider. When taking into account the undeniably high number of hunters in WOW this is even more telling of the class. Blizzard may or maybe seriously looking into this but as a hunter and serious PVPer on the ground I can see it. Our dead zone and LOS issues can make our usefulness in 2 mans limited. How to buff our Arena viability without unbalancing our PVE viability is a tough question and one BRR plans to tackle in the future.

In the last 2-3 weeks the Queen and BRR have managed to keep up our arena games, improving our rating a good 70-80 points as we gear up to some BG epics and Arena gear. More on that later I promise. Stacking on the STA and Resiliance is the name of the game. 9.6k HP and going up.

Arena - Dealing With 2 Stealthers

Dear BRR, I haven't dabbled much in PVP prior to L70, but I've gotten on-board a 2V2 arena team and it's a blast. I also know that PVP will help up my skill on PVE content as well. Do you have any advice / strategy/ tactics for a 2V2 arena team? How does BRR roll up the opponents in arenas & do you have any tips to up my PVP game in general?
For the Horde!
-RC

After mailing RC back to ask his teammate we recived.

BRR, I run with a combat rogue. The strategy we usually operate under is for a healer, DPS team, take out the dps then chew on the healer. Usually he can handle the squishies while I try to keep them at range.We've had better luck leaving the healers till last in 2v2.

What I'm inquiring about is some basic strategies, how do you maintain good kiteing distance? what do you do against a pair of stealthed rogues / druids. What's a good strategy for staying at range and what tricks can you use to keep that 9m buffer between you and the target. Any macros that are useful (aside from the trinket-popping, intimidation, TBW "Iwin button" macro)

I've been having a tough time finding PVP guides for Hunters Vs. other classes. I do like the Viper Sting (Rank 1) trick against a pally, but I'm usually running around trying to get the hang of the battle to effectively DPS down my targets.

-Ripcat

We find discussing PVP strategies to be a most satisfing way to spend our time, almost as much fun as implementing and adapting them to real world use. Unfortunatly it is huge topic with so many variables we cannot possibly cover the topic in a single post. So we shall pick a prarticlar topic mentioned to start the ball rolling - fighting 2 stealthed opponents.

Hunters are particularly well equipped to deal with stealthers. Mrs BRR is an elemental shammie, she also has some tricks to bring to the table. Like magma totems to create safer areas and mitigate the chances of getting cheap shotted, sapped or 3 shotted with an ambush. On the hunter side of the equation we bring traps (ice is particularly nice), flares, marks and dots (Serpent sting).

Our standard tactic when charging out of the gates in 2v2 arenas is if we see a single enemy, enter combat and start burning ASAP, this locks you in combat and prevents sap. BRR's first cast depends on the class we are facing in the open and the time the match has been going but is frequntly flare > ice > BW while my frost shocking wife starts laying down magma > tremor or straight DPS. Having 2 range classes lets us set up a safer area to DPS from to minimize risk w/o losing damage output.

If we see no one on exiting our buff area we have a designated spot in each arena that we head for and setup a safe zone to work from. Flare is always the first cast in these instances, followed by a trap. Once we are safe in a magma/flare area we can either wait for the assault to start or the buffs to come up. If we want to force an earlier start to the action we can leave magma/flare running and "Eyes of the Beast" Spike for a scout around the edges of the area and usually force a destealth. Another tactic we use is to rely on magma for body cover and flare out further than our safe zone randomly.

"Eyes of the Beast" is particularly useful when you have seen a non-rogue/druid stealth up with Shadow Meld. They are stuck in place and even though you cannot reach them quickly w/o exposing yourself you can set up a safe zone to ward off their partner and use your pet to knock them into site for a hunters mark. The most common reason I've seen this used is a squishy priest is attempting to hide so you cannot focus fire them down fast of the bat.

We have much more to say on the topic but cannot continue, we promised to try and keep our posts smaller and easier to digest. We shall try to post some macros tomorrow.

- Good luck in all your battles BRR.

Feeling Nostalgic

We have been inspired, fueled by nostalgic memories of time spent with our first 'true' pet, Humar the Pridelord. BRR has fond recollections of how we obtained him... Over the bodies of many would be alliance poachers in the barrens.

Pre-BC 25-60 he was our leveling and killing companion, many an gnome has been shredded under his claws. Alas he sits at 60 in our stables displaced the moment BRR reached 61 and tamed his first ravager. This is unfair to our still loyal black lion.

Spike shall trade out places for a few hours every week while we train Humar to lvl 70, He is a magnificent beast and deserves to have a share of the alliance killing. Not to mention a view of the Outlands beyond Hellfire Peninsula.

Which bring us to the issue, pet leveling. Unlike warlocks who summon demons that are always their level and always happy, hunters must put a lot more work into their pets. The leveling system for pets at the moment seems rather restrictive. To level a pet you must kill a mob that is green to you, regardless of the level of your pet. This means if you were to go pick up a unique level 30 pet at 70 the only way to get him XP is to kill level 62 or higher mobs. As you can imagine grinding out 1000's of mobs worth of XP with a level 30 pet on 62 or greater mobs would not be fun. Pets do not benefit from bonus XP, however they do have smaller amount of XP to gain per level. At level 60 a hunter will need 494000XP to level, a pet on the other hand only 145000 xp. Blizzard has not indicated any plans to alleviate this problem as yet but we may hold out hope.

- BRR

We have Mail

BRR is pleased and surprised. Overnight while we slept out blog has passed 1000 hits and kept right on trucking. We have also received mail, lots of mail. We are almost humbled. Answers shall be forth coming to all, we swear it on the blood of the gnomes we spill last night. We have selected this one to begin with as it was the first received.

I'm new to the game. I started a Troll Hunter on the Bloodscalp server and I'm currently level 18. I was wondering what talent choices you recommend for being on a PvP server. So far I have put my points in the BM tree. 5/5 Endurance Training, 3/3 Thick Hide, and 1/2 Focused Fire. I was just curious about your build and what you might recommend.

Thanks, Gromrot

Dear Gromrot,

Welcome to the Horde and Warcraft. We shall link our PvP spec and our PvE spec for your viewing pleasure. As for talent points, the path you have begun is the same we would have chosen if leveling again. When it comes to leveling talent selection our favorite Alliance hunter, BRK has beaten us to the punch. We whole heartedly recommend his guide “The New BM-Leveling Tree – Your first 40 points”. Learn from thy enemies.

The strength in leveling a hunter on a PVP server is you may grind at a reduced pace, conserving your mana and still be ready to deal with any wandering allies around attempting to gank you. You'll often see them coming a good distance off due to "track humanoid". Dropping an ice trap to cover your back while shooting is also an excellent preventative measure. We have lost count of the number of times we iced and upitty rogue on Wildhammer while leveling. When we did we would mark him, finish killing our mob and then wipe the floor with him/her to show our dispeasure. On days when the allies are too persistant another nice PVP leveling tactic is to equip your handy dandy Hydrocane and farm turtles, murlocs, hydras or other underwater mobs - you will very rarly be disturbed and if you are a leather worker it can be very profitable.

As a side note we recommend you select a pet to compliment your play style and tree early, some pet types are only available at lower levels and some very nice unique pets are coming up. Our information needs regarding pets are always meet at Petopia they have all the skills and taming information a young hunter could need. If you are the adventurous type and do not fear an epic journey to have the best, an Enraged Ravager is tamable from the Draenei islands (level 16-17). The rare and very unique black lion “Humar The Pridelord" is also coming up at lvl 23 near ratchet. BRR has Spike as our main DPS/PVP partner in death, but Humar still has a warm spot in our heart and stables. Being a rare spawn, level 23 to tame and the only black lion in the game he is a rare sight in Azeroth and the Outlands.

Season 2

Arena Season 2 has begun!

We see many Horde gathered around the PVP quartermasters and arena quartermasters to inspect and pick up new gear. BRR has stockpiled enough points to pick up 1 shiny epic BG item and must now choose between 5/4 pieces.

We feel a spread sheet and some intense number crunching coming on. The new Veteran's Pendant of Triumph calls to us but the Veteran Band of Triumph shall probably be a smarter upgrade. With the new stats for Veteran's Chain Sabatons being so tasty BRR may have to look hard again at breaking up our level 60 Warlord set bonuses. We hold a number of pieces in the bank at the moment that are only side-grades until we can justify breaking our 6 piece bonus, this item may do that.

Mrs BRR has already chosen the new epic elemental bracers for her first 'Season 2' item.

PvE makes me sleepy

BRR was helping some guildies finish the "Ring of Blood" quest last night it was a cake walk. Spike even OTed the one of the blood brothers and with the help of a little yo-yoing didn't even suck up much healer time past our mend pet. Our GM even dinged 70.

After that a nice guildie hunter who knew we had a chain quest in Auchenai Crypts we'd been putting off kindly brow beat a tank and healer into running the crypts for us. Kindness like this cannot be ignored so we pushed back our bed time.

Our guildies fielded :

MS Warrior

Resto Shaman

Enhancement Shaman

BM Hunter with a kitty

and BRR

Not the ideal make up but we still destroyed the instance handily.

BRR had to turn on some music to keep ourselves alert and stop lady sleep taking us into her warm embrace. Mrs BRR has given us very clear instructions regarding other women. We are always amazed and shocked at the ease of PvE for a DPS class after PvPing. Chain trapping? In our sleep. DPS? We go it covered. Protect the healer? Our pet is already OTing that loose mob.

Damage meters you ask?

• 45% BRR - Storm (28%) + Spike (17 %)
• 23% BM Hunter (14 %) + (Kitty 9%)
• 17 % Arms Warrior
• 13% Enhancement Shaman
• 2% Resto Shaman 2 %

We feel spike could have done more, but over all we are happy with our run.

Season 2 Cometh

Our spies tell us season 2 will be released on patch night this week. This means new arena and battleground gear will be available to all.

BRR hopes all the Horde out there have been good little Alliance killers and saved up a nice stockpile of honor and arena points and BG tokens. We looking forward to a new Epic ring and neck to round out some of our gear deficiencies.

We have had 100 AV tokens in our bank off and on for months due to our love of Alterac Valley as a conflict resolution tool. We did have to break ourselves from it this past weekend to stock up on Eye of the Storm marks, and refined our Eye strategy slightly.

In the Eye our old tactic was control 2 bases and cap the flag as fast and as may times as possible. While this worked 9/10 times we have discovered a small trick to help keep our horde brothers ahead in the victory points. Do not cap the flag immediately when you get to your horde controlled tower of choice. By all means run to the towers illusion of safety as fast as your aspect of the cheetah will allow, but when you arrive take a moment. Drop an ice trap and flare before surveying the battlefield, direct your attention specifically to the flag spawn point. We like to wait on our cap until it is firmly in horde possession before claiming our flag cap victory points.

Our decision to hold off on capping is a risk but a calculated one. The risk can be minimized, probably more so by a hunter than any other class. If we have track humanoid, BW, a flare and an ice trap set we unlikely to be overpowered or surprised before we can cap. The benefit of waiting for the right time can deny the opposition any chance to get extra points and keep the game firmly under horde control.

Bows or Guns?

Bows or Guns?

We are asked this by other hunters a lot. The short answer is Guns. The truth is if you have the right end game progression it does not matter. The fantastic 53 DPS Timeless Arrows and Timeless Shells are both available (at 2g a pop) from The Scale of the Sands at honored. 99% of guilds are not up to Mount Hyjal yet however and hunters in those guilds need to look harder at their choices.

In the world of most hunters the question comes down to two variables:

1. What is the best weapon we have access to?
2. What is the best DPS ammo we can use?

Until 2 days ago we rolled with Warden's Arrows (37 dps) for PVP as they were the highest DPS arrows we could get for our bow. With our recent change to an "epic firearm of doom" we now have access to crafted Adamantite Shells (43 DPS) and an extra 6 DPS increase over the weapon itself. There is an imbalance in ammunition available to hunters in the 43 DPS bracket currently, it is a guns only affair.

If you have a an 82 DPS bow and only a 66 DPS gun even on the lower ammo your bow will give you the edge despite the ammo limitations. In most hunter's cases a gun will have higher DPS ammo available for when it counts, boss fights and arenas.

If a bow is only a minor upgrade over a gun keep this in mind before buying it, bidding on it or rolling on it. While Blizzard has not yet commented on this imbalance BRR expects our Hunter brothers stuck with arrows to be blessed with 43 DPS equivalents to Adamantite Shells via an exchange program similar to the old Thorium Projectile swap.

We are personally glad to exploit this advantage in the arenas and BGs at the moment.

Our hunter opposition frequently sport an 82.4 DPS Gladiator's Heavy Crossbow knowing that they are very likely using 32 or 37 DPS arrows we know BRR has an edge to balance it out.

Our 75.5 DPS gun seems lacklustre at first glance but do not be fooled. We are BM and run Arenas with expensive but oh so sweet 43 DPS shells. As our haste talents and items effects our shots the 6 DPS increase on our ammo becomes 8.22(6x1.37 - 20% SS, 2% Pet and 15% ammo pouch). The final calculations on the weapon DPS, including only our edge in ammo, is 83.72 (8.22 + 75.5).

The weapon budget for Gladiator's Heavy Crossbow includes some other nice stats but for the moment the fact that it is a bow gimps it in the ammo department.

- Good hunting BRR

Instrument of Destruction

Our new instrument of destruction

- Gyro-balanced Khorium Destroyer

Functional, deadly and aesthetically pleasing. Both halves of BRR, Storm and Spike approve. This weapon was made for us, literally and metaphorically. Our old PVP weapon and ammo gave us a modest 299.9 DPS, our new weapon of doom boosts our DPS to over 320. Part of this is the new ammunition available to us, we shall elaborate on this later tonight after we have "stress tested" on some more misguided Alliance.

VS

We are most pleased and shall use it in the arenas today, we expect a modest rating increase. My partner in crime, "The Queen of Frost Shocks", shall be surprised.

We need Sleep

It is 2 am, The BRR killing machine has taken the lives of a little over 400 Alliance scum. We took particular satisfaction in besting a troublesome Mage/Paladin combo that took a liking the bunkers we were destroying. Our AV win ratio remains intact at a health 93%.

Our time in AV was profitable, over 2000 honor from a scant 3 games, but the honor was secondary. We have a new weapon, we have tested this weapon and found it a joy to wield. It brings Swift doom to our foes in bursts of green flame.

Details tomorrow.

Arena Season 2 Items

Hot off the press.

Mrs BRR, 'Queen of the Frost Shocks' informed us that the new Arena Season 2 gear and Season 2 BG gear is available for viewing in all it's glorious Alliance killing potential.

Season 2 gear on MMO Champion

Ain't it shiny? We can definatly see ourselves in this kit. The T5 models may look almost as bad as the T2 Dragonstalker gear that afflicted our PVE brothers, but it's stats are unrivaled for the PVP hunter.

Our new plans for the night are to top up our depleated honor pool for somemore epic gear lovin' in the next 2-3 weeks. Our current upgrade path and schemes may need to be reconisdered. The 88.2 dps Merciless Gladiator's Crossbow of the Phoenix makes our eyes sparkle and our teeth gnash.

Horde Racials for Hunters

It's all about getting the edge on your opposition, getting more damage on our target while stopping that bastard who dared to challenge us from doing the same. BRR is a damage machine, the orc racial gives us a juicy AP/RAP boost every 2 mins that leaves a trail of bodies along the road to Stormpike, The stables, or Silverwing hold.

Today I'm going to cover the 4 different races available to the hunters of blood thirsty Horde masses. Blizzard couldn't keep pets from gnawing on their owners' legs if they were undead so the Forsaken shall be mention no more. Orcs, Trolls, Tauren and most recently Bloodelves may all choose hunters. They each have useful abilities to assist them in knocking down the Allies they cross paths with.

Orcs.

• An increased 15% resist to stuns and knockout effects - Great for stun locking rogues and charging/intercepting warriors.


• a 5% extra damage multiplier for our pets damage - Speaks for itself, BM hunters love extra damage for our not so little friends.


• Blood Fury, (2 min cool down) Increase AP (including RAP) for 15 seconds (4 AP per level, 282 at 70) with the caveat of reducing heals on you by 50% for the same time - Excellent skill with the potently to yield anywhere from 8% to 20% damage boost depending on your gear. BRR personally gets a 12% damage boost.


• +5 to Axe skill - A small crit bonus for those Raptor strike/Wing Clip hits as you move back out of range, or finish an injured play who got to close.

Trolls

• +5 range weapon skill - As with orc axes it gives some extra crit chance (about 0.2%)
  
• Beserking, Your attack speed will increase by 10-30% for 10 seconds depending on your health at the time - This is very useful but you need to badly hurt to take full advantage of it but 10% speed is still a lot of extra damage
  
• +10 on your HP regen, and 10% of it can continue in combat - Better than nothing but it is minimal when compared with spirit bond.
  
• +5% damage to beasts - Mainly a PVE skill, but works on druids and other hunters pets.

Tauren

• +5% health - Extra HP never hurts


• War stomp stuns enemies (up to 5) in melee range (2m cool down) - Great for when your stuck in the scrum and need and a few seconds to get out.


• +10 nature resist - More use now that Allies have Shammies too, but still low use in PVP.

Bloodelves

• Mana tap, suck a little mana from an enemy (who has mana), and stores it as a charge up to 3 times. (30 sec cool down) - Only drains a minor amount of mana only useful for charging up Arcane Torrent really.


• Arcane Torrent, releases those stored charges for some mana restore per charge and an 8 yard silence effect (2 min cool down) - This is a nice little shocker for any casters trying to exploit your dead zone but of limited use due to it's range. Very situational.


• Increased resistance by +5 to all schools of magic - Minimal but better than a poke in the eye.

There are a couple of approaches to PVP that work, but however you want to boil it down it ends in a DPS race. Who can make the other guys health bar run out first. Every race above can make a fine Alliance destroying machine of a hunter when played well and geared right, but in getting the damage down on the enemy fast 2 stand above the others, the Orc and the Troll.

BRR is an orc, take that as a strong endorsement of their suitability as a PVP race. We make no pretense of neutrality. Orcs receive 3 racials with Strong PVP use. Trolls really only get 1 though it is strong. The orcs' Blood Fury is almost as much extra damage on a shorter cool down, and after the 2.0 patch upgrades to pets, even your pet will receive a nice DPS boost from it.

Trolls get a similar or even greater boost to their damage output through Beserking but must be at a low health to make it more effective than Blood Fury. It also doesn't affect their pets dps. In BGs even more so than PVE often your pet is doing an even greater portion of your damage output. In the right situation you can get double or even triple the effect gained from Blood Fury and we know many a troll hunter who swears by this skill. It scales better with high end gear than Blood Fury too.

Our post this morning has become rather longer than intended. We shall endeavour to limit our rambling analysis is future to shorter subjects. Until then may your aim be true and your foes slow witted.

- BRR out

It Warms Our Spiky Heart

Innonexess said...
this should be interesting, especially if this blog is as good a BRK

Grimshar said...
Yes, don't disappoint me like BRB did please

------------------------------------------


It warms our spiky hearts to have been discovered so soon and without and publicity or shameless self plugging. Rest assured we will strive to the utmost to deliver. We shall even channel our most violent energies normally reserved for gnomes into providing for our soon to be massive BRR Army.

We are hiding out in our server room at work crafting an factual and inflammatory article on horde racials as applied to hunters. Expect our first dissemination of PVP goodness during the day.

Rise of the Big Reds

Seeing the Alliance well represented by BRK and The Horde less well server by BRB, I'm throwing my Warlord's Chain Helmet into the ring. While a modest start is the safe way to go, matching our rival and brother BM hunter requires a certain level of confidence normally achived with copious amounts alcohol, or a squad of heavily armed SAS at your back. BRR needs neither to break out grandiose claims of eventual triumph and superiority.

Big Red Ravager is the godlike PVP combo of an Orc and a Ravager bent on the destruction and humiliation of any Alliance foolish enough to challenge the might of the horde in arenas and battlegrounds of the Whirlwind group. We shall bring horde flavour to the BM hunter blog sphere and instruct our brothers in ammo on bringing down their opponents with skill and style.